I just read this story about a 104 year old scientist at Messiah College. (FYI: When I was a kid, before I joined the Army when I was 17, Messiah was my dream school. I still remember parts of their catalog. I spent hours reading it every day when I was 15 and 16 years old.) So here is this scientist (Ph.D. from Columbia, Director of the Manhattan Project) who teaches at a college where he affirms a two fairly orthodox Statements of Faith. Yet so many in the world think of Christianity as anti-scientific. It makes no sense to me. In my parish of just 55 members there are three scientsts. One is a professor of medicine at UCSF, and two other physicians, one of whom is working on a vaccine for AIDS. One of our former members (he is now in Heaven) was a physicist who worked with Bohr and helped develop the hydrogen bomb. It is just amazing to me that so many in the world think we are idiots. Hmmmm. Maybe it is because if they convince themselves that we are uneducated and superstitious they can say the God we worship is just something in which uneducated people belive.

I've been giving some thought to your challenges: "You can't build tradition and doctrine on what you don't know. You have no idea what his oral instructions were." and "Can you show me just one thing Paul said that is not contained in Scripture?"

I'll take the latter challenge first. We know from the text of the New Testament that St. Paul wrote letters that never made it into the Bible. The only non-canonical letters of his that we have copies of today (to the best of my knowledge) are the letters he wrote to a Roman named Seneca. I don't know if this is the same Seneca who is the famous statesman but I think it is, because in one of Seneca's letters to St. Paul he mentions his desire to read St. Paul's writings to Nero. St. Jerome mentions the letters in his writings. The letters do not have much in them that is of spiritual importance. The letters were written around A.D. 58 Here is an example:

"Paul to Seneca, greeting. I received your letter yesterday with delight, and should have been able to answer it at once, had I had by me the youth I meant to send to you. For you know when, and by whom, and at what moment, and to whom things ought to be given and entrusted. I beg, therefore, that you will not think yourself neglected, when I am respecting the dignity of your person. Now in that you somewhere write that you are pleased with my letter (or, write that you are pleased with part of my letter) I think myself happy in the good opinion of such a man: for you would not say it, you, a critic, a sophist, the teacher of a great prince, and indeed of all -unless you spoke truth. I trust you may long be in health."

I don't think they are worth reading but if you want to you can read all of them at the Wesley Center of Northwest Nazarene University.

There is also a book called the Epistle of St. Paul to the Laodocians, but I don't think anyone believes it to be genuine.


Now let me take up your other challenge, that we can not build tradtion and doctrine out of what we do not know. This tells me that you do not understand what Tradition is. We do not look at the Didache, or the Epistles of St. Clement, or the Liturgy of St. Mark and construct doctrines out of them. Tradition (paradosis) is that which is passed down. It is not assembled from fragments of scrolls and crumbling parchments found in caves and monasteries.

When I mentioned the Didache, I was not saying that we Orthodox built our tradition of fasting on Wednesdays and Fridays on the Didache. Rather, I was saying that the Didache testifies to the antiquity of the Tradition. We do not consult scholars at the Ecole Oreint in Paris or the faculty of Oriental Studies at Oxford to find out what our tradition should be. Do you consult them to find out what books belong in the Bible? No, you simply take what the church gives you. That is what the Orthodox do regarding tradition.


Now here I am going to quote Elder Cleopas of Romania, a great teacher of the Faith. He was answering someone who, like you, was not sure that the Tradition of the Church is reliable:

"The Church of Christ determined the truths of the faith, according to the long course of Tradition, through the teachings and canons of the holy Oecumenical Councils, decrees and the Symbol of Faith [The Creed], and with confessions [of Faith] by holy and wonderworking hierarchs such as were made at the many local synods which have been held continuously since the days of old. At these synods the authenticity and genuineness of the holy Orthodox Faith was firmly established, primarily therein where it was attacked by the existing heresies of the time. From the totality of such synods appears the irrevocable and inalterable content of Holy Tradition. This is understood when you examine closely the essence of the following conditions:
- Do not sanction conceptions that contain inconsistencies amongst themselves or contradictions with the apostolic Tradition and Holy Scripture. (A teaching is to be considered worthy of “Tradition” when it stems from the Saviour or the Holy Apostles and is directly under the influence of the Holy Spirit.)
- The Tradition is that which has been safeguarded from the Apostolic Church and has an uninterrupted continuity until today.
- The Tradition is that which is confessed and practiced by the entire universal Orthodox Church.
- The Tradition is that which is in harmony with the greatest portion of the fathers and ecclesiastical writers.

When a tradition does not fulfil these stipulations, it cannot be considered true and holy, and consequently cannot be considered admissible or fit to be observed."

This isn't very much different that the standard called the Canon of St. Vincent.

Essentially, Jeff, I think the problem Protestants have is not with Tradition (It is your basis for accepting the Canon of Scripture), but with the Church and the Sacraments. You do not really believe that the Christ is in His church, that the Church really is the Body of Christ (As my priest says: "You are what you eat"), or that the Church is the "Pillar and foundation of the truth."

I will adress your other specific criticisms of my post of Jan 27 later. Right now I have to do laundry and dishes.

You are a highschool pastor type of guy.

I came across this cool line while reading an exegesis of the western church's Ash Wednesday rite: "The best cure for Pelagianism is reality."

Zelig is my fave woody allen movie. I'd like to throw in a word of support (support is probably too strong a word to use. Actually a criticism of woody allen's critics) for him an Ms Previn. It is a case of non-incest with a non-daughter that he did not have with his non-wife, Ms. Farrow. If he is to be criticized for his relationship with Ms. Previn, he must also be criticized for his relationship with Ms. Farrow. In each case he was having sex with a woman not his wife, and in neither case was the woman his daughter.

Now back to the shredding.
1. Have you given any more thought to my post of 11:58 pm on 4/4/04? Do you see what I am driving at there? How do you know that Martin Luther wasn't right when he took the Epistle of James out of the Bible? How do you know the Puritans were right when they took 1 Macabees out of the Bible? How do you know Joseph Smith was wrong when he added the book of Mormon to the Bible? I don't think you can know any of these things without relying on Tradition. You quoted the "All Scripture is given..." verse, but that is just begging the question, what is scripture? (Also, an argument can be made that that verse was only talking about the Old Testament, including the books you call Apochrypha.)
2. Theology backwards... Hmmmm. I disagree with you. The Church and her traditions predate the existence of Scripture. For instance, the Book of Acts records that the liturgy was being served by the church in Antioch. That is a tradition we practice today, but it was also being practiced before St. Luke wrote about it.
3. When you were listing references that condemn tradition you might have also mentioned Colosians 2:8. It was one of my favorite verses back when I was a philosophy student. I will quote it for you:
“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ” . I think this verse goes a long way toward giving you a foundation for understanding tradition.
When the Orthodox refer to Tradition we are not talking about mere customs, such as the Nativity Dinner on 12/24, or eating paska cheese and kulich on Easter. That is just the traditions of men. And we are careful not to be deceived by them. And we are not talking about the traditions of the pharisees which Jesus condemened. It was the pharisees desire to make religion hard for people. That is not the Tradition of the Apostles or of the Lord. Do you remember the Sermon by St. John Chrysostom that you read a few posts back? What is offered to those who kept the fast? What is offered to those who neglected the fast? There is no pharisaical desire to keep people out. Instead there is a desire to pull people up out of the sea and get them into the boat.

I'm not through but the little boy needs my attention. Bye for now.

This is out of context, so it probably wont mean as much to you reading it as it did when I heard it at one this morning, but here is the Paschal Homily of my father among the saints, John Chrysostom, the Archbishop of Constantinople.


If anyone is devout and a lover of God, let him enjoy this beautiful and radiant festival.

If anyone is a wise servant, let him, rejoicing, enter into the joy of his Lord.

If anyone has wearied himself in fasting, let him now receive his recompense.

If anyone has labored from the first hour, let him today receive his just reward. If anyone has come at the third hour, with thanksgiving let him keep the feast. If anyone has arrived at the sixth hour, let him have no misgivings; for he shall suffer no loss. If anyone has delayed until the ninth hour, let him draw near without hesitation. If anyone has arrived even at the eleventh hour, let him not fear on account of his delay. For the Master is gracious and receives the last, even as the first; he gives rest to him that comes at the eleventh hour, just as to him who has labored from the first. He has mercy upon the last and cares for the first; to the one he gives, and to the other he isgracious. He both honors the work and praises the intention.

Enter all of you, therefore, into the joy of our Lord, and, whether first or last, receive your reward. O rich and poor, one with another, dance for joy! O you ascetics and you negligent, celebrate the day! You that have fasted and you that have disregarded the fast, rejoice today! The table is rich-laden; feast royally, all of you! The calf is fatted; let no one go forth hungry!

Let all partake of the feast of faith. Let all receive the riches of goodness.

Let no one lament his poverty, for the universal kingdom has been revealed.

Let no one mourn his transgressions, for pardon has dawned from the grave.

Let no one fear death, for the Saviour’s death has set us free.

He that was taken by death has annihilated it! He descended into hades and took hades captive! He embittered it when it tasted his flesh! And anticipating this Isaiah exclaimed, "Hades was embittered when it encountered thee in the lower regions." It was embittered, for it was abolished! It was embittered, for it was mocked! It was embittered, for it was purged! It was embittered, for it was despoiled! It was embittered, for it was bound in chains!

It took a body and, face to face, met God! It took earth and encountered heaven! It took what it saw but crumbled before what it had not seen!

"O death, where is thy sting? O hades, where is thy victory?

Christ is risen, and you are overthrown!

Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen!

Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice!

Christ is risen, and life reigns!

Christ is risen, and not one dead remains in a tomb!

For Christ, being raised from the dead, has become the First-fruits of them that slept.

To him be glory and might unto ages of ages. Amen.

Been a super hyper busy week. I'm taking a break from services this morning to do laundry and baking. No time to get deeplyh into worship and fellowship until after pascha.
But:
1. Fellowship: We are images of God. We reject God if we reject people. We are the Church, which is Christ's body (really, not a metaphor.) If we do not love the members of His Body it is likely that we do not love Jesus. Breaking bread together is a requirment. (Translate the component parts of "companion" into English and you will discover something beautiful.)
2. Worship: It is a full body experience. biblically, worship involves bowing singing, sacrifice, icons, vestments. (Read the book of revelation and the works of St. Justin Martyr.) Oh, for Orthodox, worship of the Holy Trinity is not necessarilly supposed to make us feel anything. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. But it doesn't mattter, we do it be cuause it is "meet and right to worship the undivided Trinity, one in essence and undivided."
Say hi to Christa for me. Oh the Birthday party: It is next saturday.
Cyndi told me you called and cant make it to Pascha tomorrow night. I understand. There is always next year.

Jeff, just stoppimg in to say hi. Going to Holy Unction at St. Lawrence's in a few minutes. Devon and I went fishing in Santa Cruz this morning. Caught nothing.

Jeff, it is Holy Week. THis means I won't have time to do much, if any, blogging. f you can have the otherguys email me the links for their churches/denominations and any other links I will work on getting our 4 person blog (I still thinks its nuts.) up and running after Pascha.
Now back to making cole slaw out of your post...
I realize that that answer ("All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness") was given in haste. Before dismantle it in the most merciless and cold-blooded way I want to offer you a chance to try again. Look carefully at what I said in my post of 6:12 p.m.
I asked, how do you know that the Bible contains everything you need to know? I never said said Scripture wasn't inspired.
Well it is late. We can take this up after Pascha.

The shredding begins.
You said "if it was important it would have been included in the cannon". Really? How do you know? Is there a verse that says the cannon of scripture contains everything you need? And if so, how do you know that verse is trustworthy?

My youngest son loves caviar. I just spread the last of it on two little pieces of rye bread and he scarfed one of them and ate half the caviar off of the other one. While I've been typing this.

Hey are you coming on Saturday night?

I am so glad you finally read the Jan 27 post. I will shred your objections to tiny pieces later. Right now I am barely able to fuction as I drove 9 hours 8 hours to pick up Devon (son #2), interacted with the ex-wife, drank 2 douvble martinis, ate caviar, and a fabulos dinner of heavey guage pasta with mussles and shrimp. Toatally un able to do the necessaery shredding at this poitn. Will shred tomorroe. Weeee!

FYI: Augustine is Orthodox. (But we do quibble with his explanation of original sin.)

I just read this in an essay by Deborah Malacky Belonick of St. Vlad's Seminary:

Answering a calling produces a miracle. Poignant are the words of Metropolitan Philaret of Moscow (1782-1867), who expressed this idea beautifully in a sermon that he gave on the day of Annunciation:

"During the days of the creation of the world, when God uttered his living and mighty words: Let there be… the Creator’s words brought creatures into existence. But on the day, unique in the existence of the world, when Holy Mary uttered her humble and obedient Let it be, I would hardly dare to express what took place then – the word of the creature caused the Creator to descend into the world."

A few years ago when I was taking a clas in U.S. foreign policy I suggested that the U.S. Should take a certain course of action. The professor replied "Oh, but France wouldn't be to happy abou that."
I said, "So what? They're just the French."
The professor was aghast and said with a tone of shock, "But they think of themselves as a great world power."
To which I said, "Great world powers don't get conquored twice in one century".

I am happy to point you in the direction of someone who shares my opinion of the French.

"Gang violence has dropped, but Christian accountability group violence is up sharply," says police chief Roy Gilman. "It's a sub-set of suburban crime we're concerned about." (Read the whole story)

Bummer about the counseling class. This is just my opinnion but I don't think it is something a person can learn in a classroom. You are probably better off without it if you don't have to have it for the degree.

About asking the others to join: See my post of March 16.

Jeff, I said I would post my response to George's question about Icons here on our blog. Here it is.


George,

You asked me to explain icons. This is what I understand to be true. But remember, I am still new to the Church and there is a lot to learn.

Images and Anthropology

From ancient days God has used images (greek: eikon). Genesis 1:26 shows us that God is the first maker of images. And the first image He made was of Himself. As, we know, from Scripture and our own experience, Adam marred that image. But God, Who’s mercy is great, did not forsake His creation. Jesus was made the image of the invisible God for us (Col. 1:15) so that we who have carried the image of our earthy ancestor, Adam might be renewed and carry the image of the Heavenly, having put off the old marred corruptible image and put on the new incorruptible image, who is Christ. (Col. 3:10)

This fact, that we are images of God is lived out in the services of the Orthodox church. There are times during the services when the clergy cense the images of Jesus, the mother of God, and the Saints. But they do not stop with that censing. They also cense the people (greek: laos), for the people are images of God.

The Pedagogical Function of Icons
One of the major things the Holy Images do is instruct the people who see them. Here is one example. When I was a kid living at home with my parents I had to learn Koine and to read and translate the New Testament from greek into English. The greek curriculum was taught in conjuction with a New Testament survey course. One of the "problems" that was raised was the fact that the language of the Gospel of John is some of the most beautiful greek ever written, while the Revelation is some of the worst. Yet, both were written by the same man. Some people, as you know use this as support for an argument that the Apostle John did not write one or the other of the books.
This is a problem that nagged on me from the time I was 14 until the moment I walked into Holy Trinity Cathedral and saw the Image of St. John in the ceiling above me. On that ceiling, all of the Evangelists are pictured wriring their Gospels. That is, all except for St. John. He is looking back over his shoulder, receiving instructions from the Holy Spirit. And he is blessing St. Procorus, who is writing the Gospel. The instant I saw that, I understood that the problem that had been bothering me for 18 years was not a problem. Two saints, one the disciple of the other, both disciples of Jesus, both full of the Holy Spirit, worked on the Gospel together but St. Procorus worked under the direction of St. John.
Another example of this function can be found in the Holy Images of the Prophet Samuel. I’ve seen Images of him as a young man and as an old man. In both cases he is holding scroll which reads "Yes, Lord. Your servant is listening." Nothing in the Images mentions his anointing of two kings, the execution of Agag, or any of the other exploits he did. Rather, his "Yes, Lord" is remembered, as it prefigures the assent given by the Virgin Mary, as it prefigures the assent all Christians must give when God calls us to salvation in His Church. But the Image also establishes a very important point regarding our relationship to God: He is Lord, we are His servants. We exist for Him, not He for us. And then it goes on to teach us how a servant should be in relationship to his Lord, that is listening, being attentive, not being distracted.
So, there are two examples of the pedagogical function of Holy Images. There are many more I could go into and explain but I think that these two examples are probably sufficient.

The Revalatory Function of Images
Orthodox Christians believe that the Holy Images, whether they be mosaics, paint on wood or canvass, carved in stone wood stone wood or metal, or woven in fabric, reveal the Word of God, much as the Holy Bible reveals the Word of God. This is a mystery and I do not know how to explain it. The best I can do is to say that we meet Christ in them. It is similar to the way we encounter him in Holy Scriptures, or the Eucharist.

The history of Images
As I already mentioned, God Himself is the first image maker. After that, he instructed people to make Images. Examples from the Old Testament include the Cherubim in the Tabernacle and Temple, as well as the miracle-working brass Images of the serpents. In the Book of Revelation St. John assumes his readers are familiar with Holy Images when he describes the unholy "Image of the Beast". (Actually, St. John assumes those who "hear" the book read are in the liturgy and surrounded by Holy Images.)
As you know from reading St. John’s Gospel, Jesus did so many amazing things that there could not be enough books written to record them all. Some of what he did is recorded in the Gospels. But some of what he did is recorded in places other than the New Testament.

I have in mind the fourth century "History of the Church" written by Bishop Eusebius of Caeserea.
Bishop Eusbius relates the story of King Abgar of Edessa, who had heard of Jesus and who asked the Lord to visit Edessa and heal him of a disease. Jesus wrote a letter to King Abgar explaining that He was sent to Israel but would honor the faith of King Abgar. Then Jesus pressed his face into a cloth and sent the cloth , along with the letter to King Abgar for his healing. The cloth retained the Image of Jesus face, and was set over the gates of the city, where it remained for may years before it was lost in a war. In fact, it was still there when Eusibius wrote his book. This Image has been reproduced many hundreds of times. There is a copy of it in my parish. It is called the Icon Not Made With Hands.

Of course, I should mention a similar Image of our Lord that is still extant. It is called the Shroud of Turin, and it is in the custody of the Roman Catholic Bishop of Turin, Italy.

Now, back to Bishop Eusibius. He wasn’t wild about Holy Images, and in other ways he was a heretic. For a time, he sided with the arch-heretic Arius and denied the divinity of Christ. But that doesn’t really play into what I am talking about. So… Eusibius, who looked down on Holy Images admitted to seeing Images of the Apostles, actual portraits that had been painted while the Apostles were still alive!
At this point I should mention St. Luke. We know that it was St. Luke who first painted an Image of the Virgin Mary holding her Son, Jesus. At least one of these works of St. Luke still exists. It is called the Vladimir Mother of God. (I think it is called Vladimir because that is the name of the Church where it is kept, but I’m not sure.) It has been restored and decorated with silver over the years, but beneath the silver and the restoration work is the paint that was applied by St. Luke, as well as the Virgin Mary’s kitchen table.

The Second Council of Nicea
In response to the Iconoclast controversy (during which almost all of the Holy Images that existed were destroyed by heretics) the church gathered in council, in accordance with the precedent of Acts 15. I won’t go into all the details (the controversy lasted over a hundred years and produced many martyrs, and many arguments) but I do want to point out that the council said, and the entire church agreed that it is appropriate to honor Holy Images. But how can it be right to give honor to matter? The fathers of the council said that the honor given to Holy Images is really being given to the person who is reflected or revealed in the Image. This is similar to when you, in your former life an Air Force officer, were not honoring cloth and dye when you saluted a flag, but were instead giving honor to the nation symbolized by that flag.

I hope this answers your questions. If you have any other questions about Icons you can always look in the yellow pages under Churches – Orthodox.

Oh, I talked to my priest about this last night and he emphasized this thought: We must have Icons in the Church because Christ became matter. When we make and venerate icons we are affirming the fact that Jesus is not just a phantom, or a spirit as some heretics say. He is flesh and blood. And because he is flesh and blood he can be portrayed.

Oh, I should mention that the silver chandalier that Czar St. Nicholas II gave us is back in its place. It had been taken down sometime around Christmas to be re-wired.

Since March 25 we have been praying for the Church in Kosovo with these petitions.

Again we pray for the suffering peoples of Kosovo, that the Lord our God would hear their cry and deliver them from their great distress: hear us, O Almighty Lord, and have mercy!

Again we pray that the Lord would turn aside all evil intentions and malice directed against His faithful people, preserving and sustaining them in the midst of enmity and cruel violence: hear us, O gracious Lord, and have mercy!

Again we pray that the Lord will stop the hand of those raised up against His Holy Church, softening the hearts of our enemies: hear us, O most merciful Lord, and have mercy!

Again we pray that the Lord would confirm His persecuted people in Christian witness, granting them the grace to bear their sufferings in His Holy Name and to His glory: hear us, O most holy Lord, and have mercy!

Thankfully, Pascha is almost here and all prayers and hymns will be wrapped up in one hymn:

Christ is risen from the dead
Trampling down death by death
And upon those in the tombs
Bestowing life!

So are you going to be getting the theology diploma, the M.A. in theology, or the M.Div?

I was in SF yesterday afrenoon. Me and the boy went to the yacht harbor by Fort Mason. He had a lot of fun. After that we went to church for the pre-sanctified liturgy.

The little boy was in a very talkative mood. I'm glad every one in my church is so forgiving. Fr. Victor's wife said we shouldn't worry about him making noise except during the Gospel reading, the Creed, the Lord's Prayer and the sermon. All together thats only about 15 minutes of the liturgy.

Actually, that brings up someting interesting. During this Lenten season, Cyndi and I have visited two Orthodox Churches that used to be evangelcal protestant churches, Ss. Peter and Paul in Ben Lomond, and St. Stephen's in Campbell. The priest's there both used to be protestant. And they both still do really long sermons.

Yeah, sure. And Binny Hinn heals people.

I finished writing the explanation of icons that George asked for, and am having my priest read it before I send it to George. I'll post it here, too.

I lost my studs and my bow tie was frayed. I had to do some shopping. I found these fabulous mother of pearl studs and cuff links on eBay. I was going to go with onyx (I am a conservative, you know.) but heck, it's Pascha and white is definitley the color for the ocasion. While shopping for bow ties I found this fun little article on bow ties in the Atlantic.

Just got back from church. Very long day in SF. Left the house at 7:30 this morning. Just got home 10 minutes ago.

We went to the liturgy of St. Basil this morning. It was the last of the services celebrating the Annunciation. The services do not usually move me to tears. This one did. The scripture readings were very interesting. When I am not so tired I will tell you about them.

Oh, before church I went with Cyndi to one of her jobs. Met a couple who own a wine importing business.

Church tonight was the vigil for the Sunday of St. Mary of Egypt. Again, when I am no so tired I will tell you about her.

Had pretty good kung pao prawns for lunch.

After lunch I went at Java Beach while Cyndi was getting her hair cut. (The boy was napping in his stroller.) As I was sitting outside drinking my black espresso and reading my book about Fr. Arseny, this budhist comes up and wants to talk. It was interesting. We talked for a little while. I was able to drop a couple of hints that Jesus is the fulfillment of the dharma, that asceticism to reach nothingness is still only only striving for nothingness. He wanted to know about Fr. Arseny, but I didn't feel comfortable telling him about him. All I said was that he seemed to be one of the few people who came close to reaching the heights to which all Christians are called. I don't know why I didn't want to go into more detail. I don't know if it was because of the whole "pearls before swine" thing, or if I thought he needed to know Jesus before he gets into stories about his followers, or what. I think part of it was that he was just into buddhism because he thinks buddhism is cool, and he would have thought Fr. Arseny (Or even Jesus) was a cool and esoteric thing to look into. I don't know if I made the right decision. (Its not like I even made a decision. It was just that I didn't feel right about giving the guy too much information. I don't know.

As we were comming out of church tonight a transvestite begger asked for help. Said he was homeless & hungry. I told him to follow me and I'd buy him some food. While in the store he said several times that he'd rather have cash. Didn't want cheese, or milk, or fresh fruit. Then he said "And I can't have any frozen food cuz I don't have a microwave back at my place". I didn't say anything, but I was disappointed that he had lied to me about being homeless. His name is Chantelle. I hope he can get himself straighened out and go home to his family in Kentucky.

Thank you for praying for the Church in Kosovo. Its a hard situation.
March 21 is during lent, and a birthday party is inappropriate to a time of mourning and repentence. Also, have you ever had a butterless birthday cake?
The only resaurant fish tacos I've had are Chevy's and Una Mas. I didn't like either of them. Chevy's used salmon, and Una Mas smotherd them with what seemed to be salad dressing. Where is the nearest Rubio's?


Here are the activities for the the 10th:

10 AM Vespers immediately followed by the Liturgy of St Basil. This will be an extremely long service since several people are being baptised and/or chrismated.

There will be a break following the liturgy.

About 8 P.M. (I don't know the exact time) we will start reading the entire book of Acts aloud. This will be completed about 11 pm.

At 11:10 P.M. The Hours will be served. This takes exactly 20 minutes. It is during this service that most people will be arriving.

At 11:30 P.M. the Paschal Divine Liturgy will begin. I'm not sure what time it ends. My memories from previous years seem to say 1 or 1:30 A.M. But I'm not sure. One loses track of time, with all of the shouting, and singing, and processing, and bells ringing, and kissing, and stuff. The eating starts right after the liturgy.

Clothing: Dress up. Last year some of the men even wore tuxedos (if mine still fits I will be wearing it) and some of the women wore evening gowns. You will only be outside for a few minutes during the procession, so you, probably, will not need a heavy coat.

Food: Bring anything. A bottle of champagne, a loaf of french bread with butter, a ham, a six pack of beer, a box of chocolates, a Togos hot pastrami sandwich, anything. I think we are bringing pecan pie & a bottle of Southern Comfort.

Easter basket: You might not know this but the Easter basket has its origen in the Orthodox Church. After a long time without meat, cheese, eggs, wine, & fish, we bring baskets full of these things to church to be blessed. So, bring your easter basket. I don't know about other parish's but at Holy Trinity it seems to be the custom to have paska and kulich in the baskets. If we can find a mold for paska that costs less than $30 we'll do it too. But at the very least we will have sardines, salami, several cheeses, wine, deviled ham, boiled eggs, & milk chocolate (all the stuff we'll eat for brunch on Sunday) in our basket.

After all of the eating and drinking you are going to be doing you might want to spend the night in SF. There is a hotel just 1 block from the church.

You'll also want to learn these. You will be shouting them often.

English: Christ is Risen
Response: Indeed He is Risen

Russian: Xris-to Vosk-rese
Response: Vo isti-nu Vosk-rese

Greek: Xris-tos Anes-ti
Response: Ali-thos-anes-ti

Yupik Eskimo: Xris-tusaq Ung-Uixtuq
Response: Iluumun Ung-uixtuq

Last night, Cyndi made fish tacos. (Annuncation is the only fish day during Lent.) But she went nuts with the adobo. It was like eating fire. It was the absolute most painful food experience I've ever had. Thankfully, I had a bottle of Gruet Brut on hand(left over from the 3rd Day of Christmas party). Had to drink the whole bottle to get the flames under control. I'm not saying the tacos were bad. They were just amazingly hurtful. But they tasted soooooo good. Had to eat three of them.

Jeff, I got the message about the funeral. I'm sorry to hear about your cousin. I hope yo are doing okay.

Hey, Jeff. Its been two months since I wrote an answer to your question. Are you ever going to read and reply to my post of Jan 27?

Pascha is just around the corner!
Yum!!!
Even more Yum!!!

Punks to Monks!!! I don't know what's going on here, but there seems to be a strange thing going on with punk rock and the Orthodox Church. Read about a front man who became Chancellor of the GOA. Is it that Punk's radical nihilism (It isn't the fashionable nihilism of philosophy students. It is the crass comercialization of nihilism. Nihilism for the sake of getting money to get drugs. Punk, like hip-hop says all there is is money and possession. But not even posession, because posessions can be taken away. There is only experience. The high of drugs. The high of sex. The high of power over women and weaker men. Give me my ho and my bling-bling cuz that's all that is. It is tasteless and unrefined. It is gross and vulgar. It doesn't even pretend to be deep or profound. It hopes in nothing. Believes in nothing. Beareth nothing. Self dissapears with an extra mg of horse, or the wasting away of AIDS. It is slow suicide.) is only answered by the radical embrace of reality that is Christian monasticism?

“And so the error spread until all bishops under the Pope of Rome required their priests to insert the offending word into their missals. The Monestary of Kubaan, which hand-copied all the missals used by the Latin church, suddenly found its services in high demand: much higher, in fact, than it could commodiate; thus giving rise to the famous Kubaan Missal Crisis of 1063."

Jeff, I just noticed that you haven't blogged in over a week. Have you lost interest?

Well, we made a decision. I'm staying with AllDorm and staying in school. Cyndi will more hours. We will both sleep less. Going to be a tough year. Dinner last night was a lot of goodness. Mussels and shrmip simmered in sauvignon blanc and garlic. French bread from Semifreddi's bakery. Cyndi said it was the best meal we've had since Lent started. I think every day this week is a wine & oil day. That makes cooking much easier. I have a cold. I think I might be spending too much time in the pool in the evenings.

Jeff, I just found out that Archimandrite Benjamin will be consecrated to the episcopacy at Holy Trinity Cathedral, San Francisco, California, on Saturday, May 1, 2004. This is going to be exceptionally wonderful. You should come.

Also, here is a list of other services in the month of April.

2) Conclusion of the 40-day Fast, Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts, 6 p.m.
3) Resurrection of Lazarus, Matins and Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, 9 a.m.; Vigil of Palms, 6 p.m.
4) Palm Sunday: Entry of the Lord into Jerusalem, Festal Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, 10 a.m.; Bridegroom Matins, 6 p.m.
5) Great and Holy Monday, Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts, 9 a.m.; Bridegroom Matins, 7 p.m.
6) Great and Holy Tuesday, Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts, 9 a.m.; Bridegroom Matins, 7 p.m.
7) Great and Holy Wednesday, Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts, 9 a.m.; Matins of Holy Thursday, 7 p.m.
8) Great and Holy Thursday, Vespers and Liturgy of St. Basil the Great, 10 a.m.; Matins with 12 Gospels, 7 p.m.
9) Great and Holy Friday, Royal Hours, 10 a.m.; Vespers of Deposition, 4 p.m.; Matins of Burial, 7 p.m.
10) Great and Holy Saturday, Vespers and Liturgy of St. Basil the Great, 10 a.m.; Paschal Vigil and Liturgy, 11:30 p.m.
11) HOLY PASCHA: The Resurrection of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, Agape Vespers, 1 p.m.
14) Bright Wednesday, Paschal Vespers, 6 p.m.
15) Bright Thursday, Paschal Divine Liturgy, 9 a.m.
16) Bright Friday, Paschal Vespers, 6 p.m.
17) Bright Saturday, Paschal Divine Liturgy, 10 a.m.; Vigil, 6 p.m.
18) Antipascha: St. Thomas Sunday, Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, 10 a.m.
21) Vespers, 6 p.m.
24) Vigil, 6 p.m.
25) Sunday of the Holy Myrrhbearing Women, Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, 10 a.m.
28) Vespers, 6 p.m.
30) Canonical Election of Bishop Benjamin of Berkeley and Great Vespers, 6 p.m.


If you can only come on two days, I'd recommend Matins on Holy Thursday and the Paschal divine liturgy. FYI: The services run into each other so the start times are approximate.

I hate making decisions. At least decisions that put me on a track that is difficult to get off of later. You know I am going to school to be a nurse and working at AllDorm. And Cyndi is working part time at Starbucks and managing an apartment complex. Well, Starbucks wants her to be available more hours and wants to make her a manager. What this means is that I would have to either quit AllDorm or school to take care of the little boy.
Quitting school hurts in the long term. Quitting Alldorm hurts (Much) in the short term.

In other news I just found that my church has a relic of The Venerable Grand Duchess St. Elizabeth Fedorovna Romanova the New Martyr. It is her biography that inspired me to start down the path to becoming a nurse.

The car broke down today. Thankfully, it happened right in front of a mechanics shop and the repair (a new hose) only took 10 minutes and $50.

Muslims in Kosovo are systematically de-christianizing the region. Below is a list of churches destroyed since March 17.

1. Cathedral of the Most Holy Mother of God of Ljevis, 14th century (Prizren)
2. Church of Holy Salvation, 14th century (Prizren)
3. Cathedral of the Holy Great Martyr George, 20th century (Prizren)
4. Holy Archangels Monastery, 14th century (Prizren)
5. Church of St. George Runovic, 15th century (Prizren, courtyard of the Episcopate)
6. Church of St. John the Fore-runner and Baptist (Pec) with parish home
7. Church of the Entry of the Most Holy Mother of God into the Temple 19th century (Belo Polje near Pec)
8. Church of the Dormition of the Most Holy Mother of God (Djakovica) 19th century with parish home
9. Church of the Holy King Uros (Urosevac)
10. Church of St. Nicholas (Kosovo Polje)
11. Church of St. Catharine (Bresje near Kosovo Polje)
12. Church of St. Nicholas, 19th century (Pristina)
13. Church of St. Nicholas, 19th cenutry (Gnjilane)
14. Church of St. Sava (Kosovska Mitrovica)
15. Church in Vitina (Vitina near Gnjilane)
16. Devic Monastery, 14th century (Srbica)
17. Church in Donja Slapasnica (Kosovska Kamenica)
18. Church in Brnjak near Bela Crkva (Orahovac)
19. Church of St. John the Fore-runner and Baptist (Pecka Banja)
20. Church of St. Elijah, 19th century (Vucitrn)
21. Church of St. Michael (Stimlje)
22. Church in Obilic (Obilic)
23. Church of St. Lazarus in Piskote (Djakovica), damaged in 1999, now burned
24. Church of St. Nicholas (Tutic church), 14th century (Prizren)
25. Church of St. Kyriake, 14th century (Prizren)
26. Church of St. Panteleimon 14th c. (Prizren)
24. Sts. Cyril and Methodius Seminary building , with chapel (Prizren)
25. Episcopate - seat of the Diocese of Raska and Prizren with chapel (Prizren)

Well, today is the little boy's birthday. They prayed for him at church today. In other little boy related news, the pool is open and he has been enjoying it for the last two days. Cant swim but is fearless when it comes to jumping in off the edge.

Other news, it looks like we are getting a new auxilliary bishop. A monk named benjamin will be consecrated at my church in April. Fr. Victor said we should expect a handful of bishops and two metroplitans to come for the laying on of hands. I am very excited. Next to baptisms this is probably the most important of the mysteries - the passing on of the episcopal charisma! I'll let you know the date as soon as I find out so you casn come see it. We began praying for the bishop-elect today.

This is the week of Annunciation. But it is also the week we remember St. Mary of Egypt and is the 5th week of lent. Crazy busy week at church. Seems like we are going to be having services every morning and evening until Sunday.

Bad parenting, a 24 year old "boyfriend" (where are the cops?), and a women's clinic kill a 15 year old girl.

Islam is evil, and is persecuting Christians in the Holy Land. If Christians (eastern and western) do not get back to their robust roots conversions to islam are what we should expect. But Islam doesn't care if conversions are made peacefully. Mohamed met a demon in a cave and received a "revelation" from it. And that same demon is the spirit of Jihad. Spain has capitulated. Kosovo is burning.

I just found out that a friend of mine is pregnant. It got me to thinking about 2 Timothy 2:15 where it says: "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety." I remember the first time I thought about this verse. It was when John Hannaman was teaching, and that one freaky woman got angry with him. Anyway, The thing I remember most is reading a bunch of commentaries and all of them saying pretty much this: "It is a hard verse to understand but it might mean this."

It wasn't until I saw my wife become a Christian that I understood, at leat a little bit, what this verse meant. At the time, she did not want me to be Orthodox. But someone at the Mission of the Synaxsis of the Theotokos gave her a sheet of paper with this prayer on it:

"O Sovereign Lord Jesus Christ our God, the Source of life and immortality, I thank Thee, for in my marriage Thou has blest me to be a recipient of Thy blessing and gift; for Thou, O Master, didst say: be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth. I thank Thee and pray: Bless the fruit of my body that was given to me by Thee; favor it and animate it by Thy Holy Spirit, and let it grow a healthy and pure body, with well formed limbs. Sanctify its body, mind, heart, and vitals, and grant this infant that is to be born an intelligent soul; establish him in the fear of Thee.

"A faithful angel, a guardian of soul and body, do thou vouchsafe him. Protect, keep, strengthen, and shelter the child in my womb until the hour of his birth. But conceal him not in his mother's womb; Thou gavest him life and health.

"O Lord Jesus Christ, into Thine almighty and paternal hands do I entrust my child. Place him upon the right hand of Thy grace, and through Thy Holy Spirit sanctify him and renew him unto life everlasting, that he may be a communicant of Thy Heavenly Kingdom. Amen.

"O All-Merciful Christ our God, look down and protect me, Thy handmaiden, from frear and from evil spirits that seek to destroy the work of Thy hands. And when my hour and time is come, deliver me by Thy grace. Look with compassionate eye and deliver me, Thy handmaiden, from pain. Lighten mine infirmity in the time of my travail and grant me fortitude and strength for birth giving, and hasten it by Thine almighty help. For this is Thy glorious work, the power of Thine Omnipotence, the work of Thy grace and tendrt-heartedness. Amen.

"My most gracious Queen, my hope, O Mother of God, the joy of those in sorrow, help me, for I am helpless. Intercede thou and pray thy Son, Christ our God, that He lighten for me this season while I am giving birth. For I know no other help save thee, no other hope save thee, O Mother of God, that will guard and protect me and my child. For by thine intercession and help we send up glory and thanksgiving for all things unto the One God in Trinity, the Creator of all, now and ever, and unto the ages of ages. Amen. "

She prayed it pretty often while she was pregnant, and she still has the sheet of paper in a file folder with all of the ultr-sound pictures, hospital admission papers, etc. And this prayer, and the way the birth of her son was treated by the Church (it is acompanied by a naming rite at 8 days, and a reintroduction of the mother to the church at 40 days.) had an effect on her. In fact it was the night of the naming rite that she first said she believed.

Jeff, I know you are holding off on posting your review of the Passion. Fr. Tom Hopko, Dean Emeritus of Saint Vlad's saw the movie last week and shares his thoughts here. And here is the opinion of two Roman Catholic academics. I think it is interestng how Fr. Tom and the Roman Catholic Scholars had such different reactions to the faces of the people in the movie. I, not having seen the movie, do not have an opinion. Peter Bouteneff has a more middle of the road opinion of the film.

The news calls them Albanians and Serbs. But we know they are Muslims and Christians. The world hates to admit that Christians are hunted down and killed by the peace-loving Muslims. But we know the code. "Salaam, salaam", they say when they meet you in the market, when they are selling oil or trinkets to tourists. But when an AK-47 is in their hands, or a kilo of plastique is strapped to their bodies the cry changes to "Allahu akbar". And there is the sickening smell of blood, and the report of rifles, and sound of mourning and fear. There is death. Islam means submission. It means submission to demons and death. But Christ has conquored death. Christ has conquored the demons. Churches and monasteries are burning, and the deaths of His holy ones is prescious to Him. There are thrity one new martyrs waiting under the altar in Heaven. There are thirty-one newly-crowned heads in Paradise.

Holy Martrys, pay to God for us that we will endure till the end.

I wasn’t able to go the presanctified liturgy last night. But Cyndi, Anselm’s Godmother, and I prayed the Compline service together. It was really great to read the hymns for St. Patrick. Although, I wish the bishops would make St. Patrick’s day a major feast, thus a wine day. I kind of miss my mid-March glass of Bushmills.

Two men were sitting next to each other at a bar. After a while, one guy looks at the other and says, "I can't help but think, from listening to you, that you're from Ireland."
The other guy responds proudly, "Yes that I am!"
The first guy says, "So am I! And where about from Ireland might you be?"
The other guy answers, "I'm from Dublin, I am."
The first guy responds "Sure and begorra, and so am I! And what street did you live on in Dublin?"
The other guy says, "A lovely little area it was, I lived on McCrery Street
in the old central part of town."
The first guy says, "Faith and it's a small world, so did I! So did I! And to what school would you have been going?
The other guy answers, "Well now, I went to St. Mary's, of course."
The first guy gets really excited and says, "And so did I. Tell me now, what year did you graduate?
The other guy answers, "well, now, let's see, I graduated in 1964.
The first guy exclaims, "The good lord must be smiling down upon us! I can hardly believe our good luck at winding up in the same bar tonight. Can you believe it, I graduated from St. Mary's in 1964 me own self."
About this time, Vicky walks into the bar, sits down, and orders a beer.
Brian, the bartender, walks over to Vicky, shaking his head and mutters,"It’s going to be a long night!”
Vicky asks, "Why do you say that, Brian?"

"The Murphy twins are drunk again."

I love John Locke. I used to have his Two Treatises on Government in a beautiful leather-bound edition. I really was impressed with how he ripped apart Robert Filmer's monarchist theory in the first Treatise. And if I remember correctly, he argued that each human being, and not just the king inherits Adam's rights. And in the Second treatise He just squashes Hobbes down to size by showing that the king and the subject remain in a state of nature in realtion to each other, and of course his argument that all human rights are really property rights is the foundation of our state. Unfortunately, I lost the book, and many of my more valuable books, when I became homeless back in the 90's. But you know, according to Locke you only have a right to that property which you can enjoy. I definately was not enjoying all of my books packed away in boxes.

Actually, something I have been thinking about lately is how little stuff can I get by with. For instance, my library is down from 2,000 volumes to fewer than 40. My wardrobe has been shrinking as well, as of last night I am down to two trousers. I have 6 sweaters but only wear three. It seems that I can spend a lot of time and money acquiring things. But who knows what the future holds? Will everything go the way of that leather-bound volume of John Locke's Philosophy? If so, why bother acquiring stuff? As George Carlin teaches, the main reason to have stuff is so you can put it some place.

But why were you reading Locke if the course was about the middle class in the 19th century? Was the application of his theory of property given as the reason for the expansion of the middle class?

The Egles book you read: Was it the one about the orgins of the family and private property, or was it the one about the living conditions in working-class england? I've never read either. The only thing by him was the demon-spawned Manifesto. It is insidious, and passion-roousing. Even I, steeped as I am in the knowledge of God and His economic laws, found my heart pounding as the evil words reached their climax.

St Patrick's Breastplate:

Today I put on
a terrible strength
invoking the Trinity
confessing the Three
with faith in the One
as I face my Maker.

Today I put on the power
of Christ's birth and baptism,
of his hanging and burial,
His resurrection, ascension,
and descent at the Judgement.

Today I put on the power
of the order of the Cherubim,
angels' obedience,
archangels' attendance,
in hope of ascending
to my reward;
patriarchs' prayers,
prophets' predictions,
apostles precepts,
confessors' testimony,
holy virgins' innocence
and the deeds of true men.

Today I put on
the power of Heaven,
the light of the Sun,
the radiance of the Moon,
the splendour of fire,
the fierceness of lightning,
the swiftness of wind,
the depth of the sea,
the firmness of earth
and the hardness of rock.

Today I put on
God's strenghth to steer me,
God's power to uphold me,
God's wisdom to guide me,
God's eye for my vision,
God's ear for my hearing,
God's word for my speech,
God's hand to protect me,
God's pathway before me,
God's shield for my shelter,
God's angels to guard me
from ambush of devils,
from vice's allurements,
from traps of the flesh,
from all who wish ill,
whether distant or close,
alone or in hosts.

I summon these powers today
to take my part against every implacable power
that attacks my body and soul,
the chants of false prophets,
dark laws of the pagans,
false heretics' laws,
entrapments of idols,
enchantments of women
or smiths or druids,
and all knowledge that poisons
man's body or soul.

Christ guard me today
from poison, from burning,
from drowning, from hurt,
that I have my reward.

Christ beside me,
Christ before me,
Christ behind me,

Christ within me,
Christ beneath me,
Christ above me.

Christ on my right hand,
Christ on my left,

Christ where I lie,
Christ where I sit,
Christ where I rise.

Christ in the hearts of all who think of me,
Christ in the mouths of all who speak to me,
Christ in every eye that sees me,
Christ in every ear that hears me.

Today I put on
a terrible strength,
invoking the Trinity,
confessing the Three,
with faith in the One
as I face my Maker.

Domini est salus.
Domini est salus.
Domini est salus.
Salus tua, Domine, sit semper vobiscum

Jeff, Check this out. I'll need to get more info from the other guys to flesh out the links. Is this what you had in mind?

I am concerned that with five voices on a blog you will give even less attention to a topic than you already give it. With just the two of us blogging you have problems staying on topic. For instance, you wanted each of us to talk about our 10 favorite books. I think you gave it less than 5 minutes. I thought about your question for several days and gave really good reasons for my selections. But you were on to something else in a flash. I felt like we could have had a really intersting conversation but you just wanted... I don't know what you wanted. But I'd still like to know what it is about Dumas's writing that you like.

Al Sharpton: If I was a democrat he is who I would vote for. Of all the Dem candidates, he is the most consistent with the leftist world view.

St. Patricks Day: I do not recommend green gin. I have no chieftans music, but the little boy has a thing for bagpipes. Have you ever read the hymn St. Patrick wrote? I think it would take well to modern instrumentation and a folk/rock sound. You can hear it here.

Okay, St. Patrick's Day is coming up so just in case some out there is in the gift giving mood I would be so happy if you bought this for me.

I am going to take a moment to comment on homosexual marriage. I think it has been a long time comming. Heterosexuals have been chipping away at marraige for a long time. Beginning with John Stuart Mills evil book, "On Liberty", (I'm not giving a link to this book because it is too wicked for human eyes.) which says that if it causes no harm to others it must be allowed, to the birth control pill that divorced procreation from sex, to the liberalization of divorce laws, to the de-sacramentalizing of marriage and just making it a contract between two people has created a climate in which marriage has become nothing but a way to get insurance benefits. Well, if that is all it is, then let the homosexuals have it. They can't screw it up worse than the selfish heterosexuals have.

Adding people to the blog: I am not opposed to it. Keith asked about it. But he isn't real fast about replying to email. Do you think he would keep up? And George seems awfully busy, too. But yes, I'd like to add them. But lets find out if they can make a comitment to posting every day before we add them.

So, have you read my post of Jan 27 yet?

I saw that you posted your message about the little bombs of butter a whole bumch of times. I went ahead and deleted the duplicates.

When are you going to post that paper on the Psalms?

I might be going out to Washington, DC weekend of April 24.

About my Dad: He has given up. All he wants to do is sit in his chair and watch TV. He is in constant fear. Sometimes he acts like his old self. But most of the time he is a feeble, fearful, old man, who can only think about how good life used to be but seems to have forgotten that there is something called Heaven. It is very sad.

I love this picture so I thought I would post a link to it again.

Long long day. Today is the feast of the Exaltation of the Cross. It means we are 1/2 way through lent. Pascha is almost here. One of the songs for this day:

Kontakion in tone 7
Now the flaming sword no longer guards the gates of Eden;
it has mysteriously been quenched by the wood of the Cross!
The sting of death and the victory of hell have been vanquished;
for You, O my Savior, have come and cried to those in hell:
"Enter again into paradise."

I'm trying to get my dad and my brothers to go fishing with me next Saturday morning. I have a feeling my dad will die soon. I want Anselm to have a chance to go fishing with his Grandfather before that happens.

Just got back from Santa Cruz. The boy and I drove over the hill this morning while Cyndi was doing an open house. Walked around on the peir. The boy loved the sea lions. I learned that no fishing license is needed to fish of the peir. I think I'll ask my dad if he wants to go fishing. Drove by the mission. Thought we would pop in and venerate the relics of any Orthodox saints, but there was a Mass going on and I wouldn't feel comfortable doing the Orthodox thing in the middle of a Roman Catholic Mass. So, after that we went downtown. Bought the boy some sandles for Summer. The clerk hit on me. I was more than a little surprised. Apparantly she is looking for a group relationship. "I like kids but I love their parents, if you know what I mean." (Wink). Wow! I was not expecting that in a childrens shoe store at 11:30 in the morning. At noon the bells of Prophet Elias Greek Orthodox Church started ringing. It was really beautiful The boy really enjoys church bells. He points and says in an awe-struck voice, "Bells! Bells!" But I think the sea lions were the hilight of his morning. Oh, and the kids who cought a skate while we were watching them fish. He enjoyed that, too.

Well, it is not so much that we ever stopped recognizing the authority of the Bishop of Rome as it is that we never thought he had as much authority as the Roman Church claims he has.

Now, I am not an expert on this, so I want to be quick to say I might be wrong, but this is my best understanding of the situation before and after the Great Schism.

Bishops of major Christian centers became the leaders of the surrounding rural bishops. (This can be seen in the Letters of St. Ignatius written in A.D. 110.) These bishops became known as archbishops and metropolitans.

Here is how it worked (and still works in the Orthodox Church): Let's say you are the Bishop Diocese of Oakland, but across the bay is the Diocese of San Francisco, and the Bishop of that city is also the Metropolitan of Northern California. The Bishop of San Francisco would not tell you how to run the Diocese of Oakland. He has his own diocese to care for, after all. But when all the bishops in California get together the Metropolitan would preside. Also if you have a problem in Oakland, you would give the Metropolitan a call and see if he can help you out. And lets say the Bishop of Stockton is a political monster and trys to get a bunch of your parishes to leave you and join his Diocese. You would go to the Metropolitan and say, ""Stockton's bishop is messing with my diocese and the people are confused about who to listen to." The metropolitan would step into a situation like that and, hopefully, straighten it out.

Now take it up one level from the metropolitan and you have the Patriarchs. The bishops of the leading churches in really large areas became known as Patriarchs and Popes. There might be five or six or more metropolitans in the a patriarchate. The Patriarchs style themselves with all kinds of titles. The Bishops of Rome and Alexandria called themselves Popes. The bishop of Constantinople calls himself the Ecuminical Patriarch, the Bishop of Tblisi calls himself the Catholicos. Essentially, they are all just bishops. And sacramentally, all bishops are equal. But we pile them high with titles in an effort to "give honor to whom honor is due".

Now as for the Bishop of Rome, when he was Orthodox he was considered the first among equals. It did not mean that he was an imperious lord, reigning over all the other bishops. What it did mean is that when the Patriarchs got together, or when all the bishops from all over the world got together, the Bishop of Rome would preside. Or he would get involved if there was some item of contention between a couple of patriarchates, just like a when metropolitan presides over a local council of bishops.

It is instructive to look at the Jerusalem Council in Acts. Peter did not just make a decree, in fact, he didn't even preside. Instead they held a council. This is the way it was always supposed to be.

So what happened with Rome? Why did it get too big for it's britches? Well, two things mainly.

1) In the eastern half of the Roman Empire there were four patriarchates in close proximity to each other, and because the east was more urbanized than the west there were a lot more bishops. They were used to working with each other. But in the west, things were more spread out and the only Patriarchate was Rome. Rome was THE hub for all ecclesiastical things in the west. And gradually, the Bishop of Rome began to take on a more monarchical in his patriarchate. Today, the bishop of Rome has the power to "hire" and "fire" bishops in any Roman Catholic Diocese in the world. This is not a power Orthodox Patriarchs have. Instead, if a bishop goes bad and needs to be relieved the Patriarch would call a council and all the bishops together would decide what to do.

2) The western half of the Roman Empire there was a gradual economic and political decline so that, by the end of 5th century, the Bishop of Rome was the sole unifying power in the west, at least until the rise of Charlemagne. But in the east, the power of the Roman Empire was not diminished until the Muslim Arabs conquored Palestine, Mesapotamia, Egypt and much of Sryria during the wars of 632- 640. But Emperor Justinian reconquored Greece, Sicily, the southern end of Italy. And in 867 Basil I became emporer and began pushing back against the muslims in the south and east of the empire, and his heirs followed his example. By 970 the empire had expanded again and controlled northern Mesopotamia, & Northern Syria. But in 1070 the Seljuk turks mounted a series of devestating attacks into Asia Minor. And in 1071 the imperial army was crushed at the Battle of Manzikert. And the empire also lost its hold of southern Italy. But the empire managed to survive into the 15th Century when it was finally conquored by the muslims. All of this history is only to show that in the east there was a strong Christian imperial government for centuries after the implosion of the western half of the Empire. So the Eastern Patriarchates never assumed the political power the Bishop of Rome had gained.

So, these are the things that lead to the Bishop of Rome thinking he had such great power over the rest of the church, and even the power to change the Creed, thereby defineing the Christian faith. (Oh, there was also an 8th century forged document called the donation of constantine that later Roman Popes mistakenly put their trust in.)

And to sum up, yes, the excomunications and anathemas between the Patriarchs of Constantinople and Rome occured in 1054. But they were against individuals not entire churches. And they were lifted sometime in the 20th century. But that is not the same thing as restoring communion between the two churches. That is, I think unlikely. Rome has drifted further from Orthodoxy over the years. And Rome has committed atrocities against the Orthodox church that hurt us even today.

But we have hope. We know that the grace of God works in everyone who has been baptised in the name of the Holy Trinity, we know that Jesus prayed that we will all be one. If the Bishop of Rome ever repents he will assume his rightful place as the first Bishop of the Orthodox Church, and will give the Bishop of Constantinople a long needed rest from a job he was never supposed to have.

The service for Pascha will start with the reading of the Book of Acts sometime around 7pm on April 10.

The autism story was funny. Back in my twenties when my life seemed to be constantly falling apart I would sometimes stand infront of a mirror and list all of the evidence that would indicate that I do not have Down's Syndrome. (Most people with Down's Syndrome do not know they have it.)

Mom is home. She has to go back to the doctor tomorrow morning though. They think she is still bleeding but are not sure. They do know that it is so slow that it isn't life-threatening right now.

That's exciting news about that degree finally being within sight. Are you going to be getting the M.A. or the M.Div? You know, you've been in school a while and you've never given me any of your papers. I'd love to read them. Maybe you could post some of them here?

Mom is still in the hospital. The physics havn't been able to fid the source of the bleeding. Still giving her transfusions. More tests to find the source.

Mom is doing better. Still in the hospital. But doing better.

In answer to your question why is adelphos always translated as brother: Because brother is a pretty good translation for the word. But again, I am not arguing that St. James was Jesus’ cousin. You asked me to show you how brother can not mean brother. I was just showing you that brother can mean a more distant kinsman. I agree with you that Jesus and St. James were legally brothers. I have no dog in the brother vs. cousin fight. That is a protestant vs. roman Catholic argument. According to the Orthodox Church, St James and Jesus were legally brothers, since they were both legally the sons of St. Joseph.

About the Fathers being wrong. When they are wrong it is usually just one of them being wrong on one subject and he is then corrected by the others. For them to be wrong on Mary’s Ever-Virginity means that the whole Church was wrong. Is that what you are saying?

About the Protoevangelium of James. I was very clear (do you just skim what I write?) that we do not base doctrine on it. Rather, the author of that work drew from the tradition of the Church to write a pious poem. Kind of like no Protestant (I hope) would regard the Left Behind series of books as an authority on the last days, rather, the authors of those books rely on Dispensationalist traditions for the basis of their work.

About Matthew 1:25 – I’ve already shown you several protestant authorities who disagree with your interpretation of that verse. How do you know you are right and they are wrong?

You said: “For Orthodox, if there is a contradiction, then you seem to manipulate the text to make it say what you want it to say. That's the only way I can understand the linguistic hoops you are jumping through.” Of course I could turn this around and say the same thing of protestants. Or even denominations within Protestantism. Get a Lutheran and a Presbyterian in a conversation about sacraments, or a Baptist and Pentecostal in to a conversation about tongues and they will each make all make biblical arguments at each other and come away convinced that the others are wrong and making the Bible say what they want it to say.
This is not the way of the Orthodox. We have a discipline that we sometimes call the “patristic mind”. When we look at the Bible we do not look at it as a modern people using modern tools to understand it. Instead we ask, how has the Church lived with this passage? What has been the consensus of the Church through the ages? It keeps us from developing novel theologies (such as dispensationalism) and explains to us difficult to understand passages such as 1 Corinthians 11 or John 6. (They are not difficult passages if you accept the plain meaning of the words. Ha ha!)

But you know, we really believe the Bible is our book. I think it was St. Athanasius (Or maybe St Hilary?) who said he wouldn’t debate heretics from the Bible because they were unworthy of the Bible. What the Orthodox Church teaches is that the Bible can only be properly understood in the Orthodox Church (a la Ethiopian eunuch). You will see what I am talking about if you go back a few weeks and read what I posted on the Book of Revelation.

Oh, I am going to re-read the first part of Matthew and see if I can find all of this sex you are talking about.

So are you helping Christa train for the MArathon? Is that why you can't cross the bay yo go to the farmers Market? Oh, if you go, go early. About 9 A.M. it starts getting crowded.

My mom is in the hospital. Hemoraging. Blood transfusions. Dad is just about panicked. Very bad day.

Ah, thats right. I'd forgotten about Keith's past life. God protected you well prior to your marriage. I always admired your commitment to chastity.

I tried to figure out what you meant by "Orthodox Speak". I couldn't find what you meant, except maybe using words such as Theotokos, and Ever-Virgin. If you'd like I can translate Theotokos to God Bearer. As for Ever-Virgin, I suppose I could use the Perpetual Virginity instead, but I do not know for sure what that means to a former Roman Catholic such as yourself. I know exactly what Ever-Virgin means so I usually use that. Anyway, let me know what I wrote that made you say "huh?" and I will try to explain better.

Super busy day today has been. Dentist appointments this morning. Looking at a lot of expensive work. Going to try three crowns but still might lose a tooth. I had school in the afternoon. And then this evening, the boy's Godmother came over for a lenten meal (indian dish involving garbonzos, cauliflower, lentels, basmati rice, safron, tumeric, onions, chiles, ginger and a bunch of other stuff) and Compline. It was my first time to pray the Compline service. It was very enjoyable. Learned a little about St. Felix of Burgundy, the Enlightener of East Anglia.

How you post doesn't matter to me. I just like to read what you have to say.

I don't think I asked the questions of you that you are going to ask Keith. As I recall, throughout your engagment, the question I kept asking was: "Are you still a virgin?" Every time I asked and you answered in the affirmative a demon kicked himself. There is not much that pleases them more (if they are even capable of pleasure) than damaging a marriage before it even starts.

Regarding Mary. I am not sure she or her Holy Son are all that happy with the amount of time I am spending talking about her. It seems to me that she was always directing people to Him. Nevertheless, could you tell me exactly what verses do not make sense if they do not mean St. Mary is the mother of the people called brothers of Jesus? (Read, below, what Calvin says about this argument of yours.)

Also the argument I have been using consists of more than the two points you mentioned. I will quickly review it for you and ask you to be very specific in where you think I err:

1. Brother (Greek: adelphos) does not always mean siblings sharing a parent. It can mean cousins, nephews, uncles, and close friends. I gave Abrham and Lot as an example of people who are not brothers who yet were called brothers in Genesis 14. I could have given you many more instances of the Greek word adelphos being used to signify various relationships, but I didn't. I thought you would have given up your position and ceeded me this ground with just one instance of brother not meaning brother. The word adelphos, that is brother, is not only used of 1) male children of the same parents ; but 2) male descendants of the same parents, Acts 7:23,26; Hebrews 7:5; 3) people of the same nationality, Acts 3:17,22; Romans 9:3 . . . ; 4) any man, a neighbour, Luke 10:29; Matthew 5:22, 7:3; 5) persons united by a common interest, Matthew 5:47; 6) persons united by a common calling, Revelation 22:9; 7) mankind, Matthew 25:40; Hebrews 2:17; 8) the disciples, and so, by implication, all believers, Matthew 28:10; John 20:17; 9) believers, apart from sex, Matthew 23:8; Acts 1:15; Romans 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; Revelation 19:10 (the word 'sisters' is used of believers, only in 1 Timothy 5:2).

St. Jerome thought that St. James, et al. were Jesus' cousins. This is not the position of the Orthodox church, and I only mentioned this because you asked me to show you how brothers does not mean brothers. In addtion to St. Jerome's belief that they were cousins, I gave you the Orthodox teaching that St. James was the son of St. Joseph from a previous marriage. In this case it is also possible to call St. James the brother of Jesus. The law, seeing Jesus as the son of Joseph, would regard him as the brother of St. James. Both of these explanations were given to you in answer to your post of 12:14 P.M. on January 13, 2004. Your exact words were: "Can you make a cogent argument for why brother does not mean brother???" I just did.

2. You depart from the ancient teaching of the church and set yourself up as the ultimate arbiter of truth when you deny the ever virginity of St. Mary. The teaching that the Theotokos is Ever-Virgin is unquestioned by all conservative churchmen, and even most radicals.

Let's start with the very early guys. These are the guys who put Ortho into Orthodoxy. They viewed with outright hostility anyone who added any thing to the Tradition they received. I just can't believe that men such as St. Jerome, St. Athanasius, St. Cyril, St. Ambrose, St. Leo the Great, St. Hilary, and St. Augustine would buy into some novel idea. You have to remember, that when these guys smelled heresy it was like putting a pound of beef liver in front of a hungry pit bull. Yet they all affirmed St. Mary's ever-virginity. Even the heretic, Origen believed it.

Later, in the 6th Century, the Council of Constantinople, following the example of the Apostolic Council and the custom of the church, met to find the will of the Holy Spirit. They twice declared that Mary remains a virgin. The entire church, throughout the whole world agreed with this dogma. Why? Because it was uncontroversial.

Even your own reformers held to the doctrine. I could fill up pages with quotes from Luther and Zwingli attesting to the correctness of this doctrine. (Don't worry. I'm not going to do it.). And Calvin says of a certain heretic, "Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ's 'brothers' are sometimes mentioned."

And as late as the 18th Century, Protestants held to the idea that Mary is still a virgin. In his "Letter to a Roman Catholic" John Wesley said, "The Blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as when she brought him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin."


3. The teaching that St. Joseph had children before his marriage to St. Mary is ancient. It's earlist written form is to be found in the second century Protoevangelium of James. While the Orthodox church does not base any of her teachings on this pseudo-gospel, we do hold that someone appropriated the truth and wove it into this allegorical poem, much as Jannes and Jambres were woven into the non-canonical Book of Enoch long before that tradition was written down in the Epistle of Jude.

4. Though the Tradition of the church encompasses the Bible, it is larger than the Bible. That is to say, not all Christian doctrine is in the Bible, though it certainly does not disagree with the Bible. Pleas see my post of Jan 27 for more on this.

5. The word "heos", which is variously translated into English as "to", "until", and "till". I explained this fully in just the past few days. Please refer to those posts. If we do not belive Jesus departs from us at the end of the age, there is no reason to think St. Mary and St. Joseph had sex.

6. The Ever-Virginty of the theotokos was a universal teaching. In no part of the world did the the Church reject the teaching of St. Mary's life-long virginity. In Africa, Europe, and Asia the Church affirmed the doctrine. Until the Reformation, there was no place on the planet where a group claiming to be the church tought that Mary had children after Jesus was born.

A a schemamonk is a monk who undertakes the most severe ascetic practices. This is because he (or she) has attained a level of holiness at which only the most rigid disciplines can help them attain greater holiness. This level of discipline is called the Great Schema. The man I saw the other day seemed to float as he walked. I didn't mention it the other day because I wasn't sure I was seeing it correctly. I'm still not sure about what I saw. I know saw his feet moving. I'm just not sure they were touching the ground. And his movement was smooth as though he was on wheels. The prefix "heiro" means is is also a priest. Most monks are not schema monks. And most monks are not priests. A heiro schema monk is rare. I suppose a floating heiroschema monk is even more rare.

About plain meaning of the Bible. I do not believe you. I belive you have certain doctrines that yu belive to be true and you interperet the bible to support those interpretations. I would go into this, but Daniel made a comment about this and anything I say about it would just be restating his words.

Why does your wife's training for a marathon keep you and Caleb from visiting the farmers market? (How is she doing? Do you think she'll be ready by race time?)

Well, here we are. Sunday night. Just got the boy to sleep and made myself dinner. Cyndi is at work. Since this is a wine day I am taking full advantage of it and drinking a bottle of Riven Rock Cabernet Sauvignon. Unfortunately, this wine is not very good. I suppose the best way to describe it is by saying it is like a good wine that has been cut 50/50 with water.

Long day. Cyndi, the boy and I drove up to SF so she could meet up with her sister at the office of one of her clients. They spent three hours working there while the boy and I went to the Ferry Plaza Farmers Market.

I bought something labeled "Giant Fuji Apple". It was huge. As big as some grapefruits I have seen. It turned out that it was not an apple. It was a very large Asian pear. Very dissapointing.

After that Cyndi and the boy drove out to the beach (He had fallen asleep in the car) and I went to Arcangel Bookstore. One of the people with whom I had been a catachumen was working. We talked for a long time. Then Cyndi came and picked me up. We went to the vigil service at Holy Trinity. Then the long drive home.

We just got the boy to bed. Very tired. Go bed now.

It is the time of year to start thinking about Community Supported Agricuture (CSA). It is the best produce experience I have ever had. I whole heartedly recommend it. Cyndi and I use Two Small Farms. You can find CSA farms in your area by visiting the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

Hey, Jeff. Remember how the Mother of God was surprised by the news that she was going to have a baby? This makes no sense. She was engaged to be married. And being a Jewess, she knew the stories of prophecies of various women having children, from Eve on down the line. She should not have been surprised. Yet she was surprised. In my reading of "The Orthodox Veneration of Mary the Birthgiver of God" by St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco, I came across this information: By the time of the Annunciation, the Theotokos had already decided to remain a virgin her whole life and that is why she was astounded by the news that she was to be a mother.

I should say something else here. While I was reading that book and considering the arguments in a very academic way, the little boy took the book out of my hands, kissed the Icon on the cover, then turned all the pages kissing all the icons printed on the pages. His respnse to the book was better than mine.

Holy Theotokos, pray for me that I will repent of my many sins.

Jeff, I came across this text in the 1871 Commentary by Jamison, Fausset, and Brown. They are protestants, by the way.

"Verse 25. And knew her not till she had brought forth her first-born son: and he called his name JESUS--The word "till" does not necessarily imply that they lived on a different footing afterwards (as will be evident from the use of the same word in 1Sa 15:35 2Sa 6:23 Mat 12:20 ); nor does the word "first-born" decide the much-disputed question, whether Mary had any children to Joseph after the birth of Christ; for, as LIGHTFOOT says, "The law, in speaking of the first-born, regarded not whether any were born after or no, but only that none were born before."

These Protestants disagree with you. How do you know your interpretation of this verse is correct?

Yesterday was such a good day. Cyndi had a trade show she had to go to so I worked out of the office at home for a couple of hours, and then spent the day hanging out with the boy. We went to the park and he chased ducks and geese all over the place. He had much fun. After that we went to the market. Then it was nap time. (I did some more work while he was napping) After that we visted granny and papa. Had a nice visit. (Advice: Never let your toddler son up in you your lap if (1) your mother has just given him a piece of chocolate and (2) you are waring light colored pants.)

After that we drove up to Felton for the liturgy of St. Gregory (aka Presanctified Liturgy) at St. Lawrence Church. Wow, What an experience. I think one 1/3 of the congregation was couples in the late teens and early twenties, all with two or three kids. I loved seeing it. I think we have a problem in this society, very visible in SF, and Silicon Valley, that people delay marriage so long. I met a very old heiroschmamonk at church last night. First time I'd ever seen one. Anyway, the service was beautiful. Much uf it spent in prostration (I don't know about other Orthodox, but my forehead gets sore after a few minutes.) The building itself is a converted auction barn, and looks like it could hold 300 comfortably. I think the floors are polished redwwod. Lots of oriental rugs. THe Iconograpy was good, all by the same artist. Unfortunately, the artist pretty much makes the same 3 or four faces. So St. Christopher looks like Jesus. There were lots of people there. The building was very full. Lots of clergy were there, too. Three priests were serving communion. The deacon had a good voice and lead the litanies very powerfully. The priest was kind of nasally. The choir was amazingly good. The best Orthodox choir I have ever heard. I think that if Cyndi and I ever move to Santa Cruz (we are thinking about it) we'd make St. Lawrence Church our home.

And today is off to a great start. Had a breakfast of a crusty baguette from Grace Baking, olives, vegan hummus, and black french roast coffee. And these fabulous little treats. (Yes, they are Lent-friendly)

About Kristie and eBay. I talked to her a couple of months ago and she said she didn't have any friends there. I suppose that might have something to do with her leaving the company. Have you taken a look at their valuation? And their P/E ratio is stupid. I can't figure it out. Its like they are in their own mini-bubble.

Wooo HOOOO!!!!! My client in DC wants to expand his program from 2 schools to 7!!!! Yes. This means I make money! But more importantly, it is a huge indicator that my program works!!!!

Keith asked for wedding advice. Here is what I gave him. What advice would you give for a wedding?

1. I think the best protestant wedding service is from the Church of England's Book of Common Prayer. They have made some changes lately so look for a copy published before the 1920's.
2. Require the minister to give a sermon.
3. Involve everyone in attendence by sining a hymn. Make it solemn. A hymn thanking God for his mercy and providence is best.
4. Elvis and Liberace are both dead. Therefore, no white tuxedos at your wedding.
5. If the wedding is in the morning wear morning clothes.
6. If you are not having groomsmen, then buy a tuxedo. Rented tuxedos never fit right.
7. Don't to 1st corinthans 13 for the reading. Every one does it. Instead do the creation accout of Eve being taken from Adams rib and Pauls command to submit to one another and give your life for your wife.
8. The bride and groom should have communion alone together.
9. Here is a link to some info about the Orthodox wedding rite. Take any ideas you like from it. http://www.hhwedding.com/orthodox_weddings.htm
10. This is the most important advice. Let Cheryl do whatever she wants to do. If she wants white tuxedos, and an Elvis impersonator, and sequiend gowns for the bride's maids let her do it. It is very likely that she has been thinking about this wedding since she was 5 years old and knows exactly what she wants.

It seems that you didn't read anything I posted about Mary's virginity. All you do is repeat what you've already said. I really wish you would pay attention to what I write. But since you don't here are the two things I said before:

1. The Greek and Hebrew Words that are translated in to the English word "until" are used two different ways.

Since it seems you didn't read the whole Gillquist essay, here is his answer to this objectio of yours:

"At this point, however, a very valid question can be raised. If she remained a virgin, why does the Gospel of Matthew tell us that Joseph knew not his wife until after Christ was born (Matthew 1:25)?

From a Scriptural standpoint, the presence of the phrase "until she had brought forth her firstborn Son," does not automatically mean that Joseph must have known her afterward. This is because in both Greek and Hebrew the word 'until' or 'to' can have several different meanings. We find it in II Samuel 6:23: "Michal, daughter of Saul, had not child to (until) the day of her death." It is used again in Matthew 28:20 where the risen Christ says "Lo, I am with you always, even to (until) the end of the world." And in Deuteronomy 34:6 we read "Moses was buried in a valley in the land of Moab, but no one knows his grave to (until) this day."

Obviously the use of the word in these passages does not imply that Michal had a child after her death, that Christ will depart at the end of the world, or that Moses' burial place was discovered the day Deuteronomy 34:6 was written. By the same token, the word 'until' in Matthew 1:25 does not mean that Joseph and Mary began a sexual union after Christ was born. Such a teaching is found nowhere in Scripture and is contrary to the consistent voice of the entire early Church."

As I mentioned earlier, Blesed Theophylact gives more examples than these.

2. The Orthodox church does not necessarily hold that the people described as Jesus' brothers were his cousins. We are adamant that St. James is the son of Joseph by a prior marriage. I'm not aware of any explanations of the St. Jude or the others' relationship to Jesus. To quote Fr. Gilquist again, "Scripture is therefore silent concerning the nature of this relationship between Christ and these brothers and sisters. Early Fathers differed slightly in their understanding of what the terms meant. Some, such as Saint Ambrose, believed that they were children of a former marriage between Joseph and a wife who died prior to Matthew chapter 1. Others taught that they were cousins. But on one point, almost everyone is in agreement: Mary and Joseph had no sexual union whatsoever, before or after the birth of Christ."

So, what is it about this that is hard for you?

You don't have a computer at home? Where were you when you were working on your Psalm 19 Paper & drinking a martini?

About Mary's virginity. I was reading the 9th century comentary on the Gospel of Matthew by the Blessed Theophylact earlier tonight. He gives the same explanation of "until" as Fr. Gilquist does. But he gives more examples from the OT. You know, you never replied to that post of mine either. Looking forward to all of your responses.

Jeff, you have no idea how thrilled I am you finally got a computer at home. There are so many things I am interested in knowing. Did you finish St. John's sermons on 1 Corinthins? What did you think? What did you think of my defense of infant baptism? (You know, of course that nowhere does the Bible say it is wrong to baptize infants.) And of course, there is the post of Jan 27. You've had more than a month to prepare your response. I can hardly wait to read it. So hurry up and post it!

When did Lyndon get out of prison?

One of the ad agencies I am trying to do a deal with has this very odd thing on their website. After wasting almost five minutes on it I thought I'd share it with you.

Also in thinking bout yesterday there were a couple of little things I noticed.
1. The Archpriest from Moscow who was at the Sunday of Orthodox Vespers last night in San Francisco had real diamonds and hand painted icons in his mitre. It was shckingly beautiful.
2. There was a very very old Serbian priest at the same service. When it came time for everyone to prostrate all of the other priests looked at him and seemed to take their cue from him. Would they not have done the prostration if he hadn't? I do not know. But he was first on his face before the Lord. Everyone else followed. It was too crowded for me to do the full prostration. I was only able to get down on my knees.
3. During the Praying of the Our Father during the liturgy at St. Stephens, everyone rasied their hands. I have seen it in Icons and I have seen priests do it at various times during the liturgy, and it is mentioned in the Bible, so I know it is traditional. Also, at St. Stephen's everyone exchanged the kiss of peace ('Christ is in our midst', 'He is and ever shall be'. Kiss.), not just the clergy. It is interesting to see the differences in the various Orthodox Churches. Cyndi and I were talking about it, later. I guess the thing that really matters is not the differences, after all, the Western Rite is Orthodox, and it is dramatically different from what most Orthodox do. What matters is that in that cup is the "One Lord Jesus Christ" and the bishops in all of the Orthodox churches all partake of the same episcopacy. Though there are disimilarities, there is no disapation of love.