That's exciting news about that degree finally being within sight. Are you going to be getting the M.A. or the M.Div? You know, you've been in school a while and you've never given me any of your papers. I'd love to read them. Maybe you could post some of them here?

Mom is still in the hospital. The physics havn't been able to fid the source of the bleeding. Still giving her transfusions. More tests to find the source.

Mom is doing better. Still in the hospital. But doing better.

In answer to your question why is adelphos always translated as brother: Because brother is a pretty good translation for the word. But again, I am not arguing that St. James was Jesus’ cousin. You asked me to show you how brother can not mean brother. I was just showing you that brother can mean a more distant kinsman. I agree with you that Jesus and St. James were legally brothers. I have no dog in the brother vs. cousin fight. That is a protestant vs. roman Catholic argument. According to the Orthodox Church, St James and Jesus were legally brothers, since they were both legally the sons of St. Joseph.

About the Fathers being wrong. When they are wrong it is usually just one of them being wrong on one subject and he is then corrected by the others. For them to be wrong on Mary’s Ever-Virginity means that the whole Church was wrong. Is that what you are saying?

About the Protoevangelium of James. I was very clear (do you just skim what I write?) that we do not base doctrine on it. Rather, the author of that work drew from the tradition of the Church to write a pious poem. Kind of like no Protestant (I hope) would regard the Left Behind series of books as an authority on the last days, rather, the authors of those books rely on Dispensationalist traditions for the basis of their work.

About Matthew 1:25 – I’ve already shown you several protestant authorities who disagree with your interpretation of that verse. How do you know you are right and they are wrong?

You said: “For Orthodox, if there is a contradiction, then you seem to manipulate the text to make it say what you want it to say. That's the only way I can understand the linguistic hoops you are jumping through.” Of course I could turn this around and say the same thing of protestants. Or even denominations within Protestantism. Get a Lutheran and a Presbyterian in a conversation about sacraments, or a Baptist and Pentecostal in to a conversation about tongues and they will each make all make biblical arguments at each other and come away convinced that the others are wrong and making the Bible say what they want it to say.
This is not the way of the Orthodox. We have a discipline that we sometimes call the “patristic mind”. When we look at the Bible we do not look at it as a modern people using modern tools to understand it. Instead we ask, how has the Church lived with this passage? What has been the consensus of the Church through the ages? It keeps us from developing novel theologies (such as dispensationalism) and explains to us difficult to understand passages such as 1 Corinthians 11 or John 6. (They are not difficult passages if you accept the plain meaning of the words. Ha ha!)

But you know, we really believe the Bible is our book. I think it was St. Athanasius (Or maybe St Hilary?) who said he wouldn’t debate heretics from the Bible because they were unworthy of the Bible. What the Orthodox Church teaches is that the Bible can only be properly understood in the Orthodox Church (a la Ethiopian eunuch). You will see what I am talking about if you go back a few weeks and read what I posted on the Book of Revelation.

Oh, I am going to re-read the first part of Matthew and see if I can find all of this sex you are talking about.

So are you helping Christa train for the MArathon? Is that why you can't cross the bay yo go to the farmers Market? Oh, if you go, go early. About 9 A.M. it starts getting crowded.

My mom is in the hospital. Hemoraging. Blood transfusions. Dad is just about panicked. Very bad day.

Ah, thats right. I'd forgotten about Keith's past life. God protected you well prior to your marriage. I always admired your commitment to chastity.

I tried to figure out what you meant by "Orthodox Speak". I couldn't find what you meant, except maybe using words such as Theotokos, and Ever-Virgin. If you'd like I can translate Theotokos to God Bearer. As for Ever-Virgin, I suppose I could use the Perpetual Virginity instead, but I do not know for sure what that means to a former Roman Catholic such as yourself. I know exactly what Ever-Virgin means so I usually use that. Anyway, let me know what I wrote that made you say "huh?" and I will try to explain better.

Super busy day today has been. Dentist appointments this morning. Looking at a lot of expensive work. Going to try three crowns but still might lose a tooth. I had school in the afternoon. And then this evening, the boy's Godmother came over for a lenten meal (indian dish involving garbonzos, cauliflower, lentels, basmati rice, safron, tumeric, onions, chiles, ginger and a bunch of other stuff) and Compline. It was my first time to pray the Compline service. It was very enjoyable. Learned a little about St. Felix of Burgundy, the Enlightener of East Anglia.

How you post doesn't matter to me. I just like to read what you have to say.

I don't think I asked the questions of you that you are going to ask Keith. As I recall, throughout your engagment, the question I kept asking was: "Are you still a virgin?" Every time I asked and you answered in the affirmative a demon kicked himself. There is not much that pleases them more (if they are even capable of pleasure) than damaging a marriage before it even starts.

Regarding Mary. I am not sure she or her Holy Son are all that happy with the amount of time I am spending talking about her. It seems to me that she was always directing people to Him. Nevertheless, could you tell me exactly what verses do not make sense if they do not mean St. Mary is the mother of the people called brothers of Jesus? (Read, below, what Calvin says about this argument of yours.)

Also the argument I have been using consists of more than the two points you mentioned. I will quickly review it for you and ask you to be very specific in where you think I err:

1. Brother (Greek: adelphos) does not always mean siblings sharing a parent. It can mean cousins, nephews, uncles, and close friends. I gave Abrham and Lot as an example of people who are not brothers who yet were called brothers in Genesis 14. I could have given you many more instances of the Greek word adelphos being used to signify various relationships, but I didn't. I thought you would have given up your position and ceeded me this ground with just one instance of brother not meaning brother. The word adelphos, that is brother, is not only used of 1) male children of the same parents ; but 2) male descendants of the same parents, Acts 7:23,26; Hebrews 7:5; 3) people of the same nationality, Acts 3:17,22; Romans 9:3 . . . ; 4) any man, a neighbour, Luke 10:29; Matthew 5:22, 7:3; 5) persons united by a common interest, Matthew 5:47; 6) persons united by a common calling, Revelation 22:9; 7) mankind, Matthew 25:40; Hebrews 2:17; 8) the disciples, and so, by implication, all believers, Matthew 28:10; John 20:17; 9) believers, apart from sex, Matthew 23:8; Acts 1:15; Romans 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; Revelation 19:10 (the word 'sisters' is used of believers, only in 1 Timothy 5:2).

St. Jerome thought that St. James, et al. were Jesus' cousins. This is not the position of the Orthodox church, and I only mentioned this because you asked me to show you how brothers does not mean brothers. In addtion to St. Jerome's belief that they were cousins, I gave you the Orthodox teaching that St. James was the son of St. Joseph from a previous marriage. In this case it is also possible to call St. James the brother of Jesus. The law, seeing Jesus as the son of Joseph, would regard him as the brother of St. James. Both of these explanations were given to you in answer to your post of 12:14 P.M. on January 13, 2004. Your exact words were: "Can you make a cogent argument for why brother does not mean brother???" I just did.

2. You depart from the ancient teaching of the church and set yourself up as the ultimate arbiter of truth when you deny the ever virginity of St. Mary. The teaching that the Theotokos is Ever-Virgin is unquestioned by all conservative churchmen, and even most radicals.

Let's start with the very early guys. These are the guys who put Ortho into Orthodoxy. They viewed with outright hostility anyone who added any thing to the Tradition they received. I just can't believe that men such as St. Jerome, St. Athanasius, St. Cyril, St. Ambrose, St. Leo the Great, St. Hilary, and St. Augustine would buy into some novel idea. You have to remember, that when these guys smelled heresy it was like putting a pound of beef liver in front of a hungry pit bull. Yet they all affirmed St. Mary's ever-virginity. Even the heretic, Origen believed it.

Later, in the 6th Century, the Council of Constantinople, following the example of the Apostolic Council and the custom of the church, met to find the will of the Holy Spirit. They twice declared that Mary remains a virgin. The entire church, throughout the whole world agreed with this dogma. Why? Because it was uncontroversial.

Even your own reformers held to the doctrine. I could fill up pages with quotes from Luther and Zwingli attesting to the correctness of this doctrine. (Don't worry. I'm not going to do it.). And Calvin says of a certain heretic, "Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ's 'brothers' are sometimes mentioned."

And as late as the 18th Century, Protestants held to the idea that Mary is still a virgin. In his "Letter to a Roman Catholic" John Wesley said, "The Blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as when she brought him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin."


3. The teaching that St. Joseph had children before his marriage to St. Mary is ancient. It's earlist written form is to be found in the second century Protoevangelium of James. While the Orthodox church does not base any of her teachings on this pseudo-gospel, we do hold that someone appropriated the truth and wove it into this allegorical poem, much as Jannes and Jambres were woven into the non-canonical Book of Enoch long before that tradition was written down in the Epistle of Jude.

4. Though the Tradition of the church encompasses the Bible, it is larger than the Bible. That is to say, not all Christian doctrine is in the Bible, though it certainly does not disagree with the Bible. Pleas see my post of Jan 27 for more on this.

5. The word "heos", which is variously translated into English as "to", "until", and "till". I explained this fully in just the past few days. Please refer to those posts. If we do not belive Jesus departs from us at the end of the age, there is no reason to think St. Mary and St. Joseph had sex.

6. The Ever-Virginty of the theotokos was a universal teaching. In no part of the world did the the Church reject the teaching of St. Mary's life-long virginity. In Africa, Europe, and Asia the Church affirmed the doctrine. Until the Reformation, there was no place on the planet where a group claiming to be the church tought that Mary had children after Jesus was born.

A a schemamonk is a monk who undertakes the most severe ascetic practices. This is because he (or she) has attained a level of holiness at which only the most rigid disciplines can help them attain greater holiness. This level of discipline is called the Great Schema. The man I saw the other day seemed to float as he walked. I didn't mention it the other day because I wasn't sure I was seeing it correctly. I'm still not sure about what I saw. I know saw his feet moving. I'm just not sure they were touching the ground. And his movement was smooth as though he was on wheels. The prefix "heiro" means is is also a priest. Most monks are not schema monks. And most monks are not priests. A heiro schema monk is rare. I suppose a floating heiroschema monk is even more rare.

About plain meaning of the Bible. I do not believe you. I belive you have certain doctrines that yu belive to be true and you interperet the bible to support those interpretations. I would go into this, but Daniel made a comment about this and anything I say about it would just be restating his words.

Why does your wife's training for a marathon keep you and Caleb from visiting the farmers market? (How is she doing? Do you think she'll be ready by race time?)

Well, here we are. Sunday night. Just got the boy to sleep and made myself dinner. Cyndi is at work. Since this is a wine day I am taking full advantage of it and drinking a bottle of Riven Rock Cabernet Sauvignon. Unfortunately, this wine is not very good. I suppose the best way to describe it is by saying it is like a good wine that has been cut 50/50 with water.

Long day. Cyndi, the boy and I drove up to SF so she could meet up with her sister at the office of one of her clients. They spent three hours working there while the boy and I went to the Ferry Plaza Farmers Market.

I bought something labeled "Giant Fuji Apple". It was huge. As big as some grapefruits I have seen. It turned out that it was not an apple. It was a very large Asian pear. Very dissapointing.

After that Cyndi and the boy drove out to the beach (He had fallen asleep in the car) and I went to Arcangel Bookstore. One of the people with whom I had been a catachumen was working. We talked for a long time. Then Cyndi came and picked me up. We went to the vigil service at Holy Trinity. Then the long drive home.

We just got the boy to bed. Very tired. Go bed now.

It is the time of year to start thinking about Community Supported Agricuture (CSA). It is the best produce experience I have ever had. I whole heartedly recommend it. Cyndi and I use Two Small Farms. You can find CSA farms in your area by visiting the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

Hey, Jeff. Remember how the Mother of God was surprised by the news that she was going to have a baby? This makes no sense. She was engaged to be married. And being a Jewess, she knew the stories of prophecies of various women having children, from Eve on down the line. She should not have been surprised. Yet she was surprised. In my reading of "The Orthodox Veneration of Mary the Birthgiver of God" by St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco, I came across this information: By the time of the Annunciation, the Theotokos had already decided to remain a virgin her whole life and that is why she was astounded by the news that she was to be a mother.

I should say something else here. While I was reading that book and considering the arguments in a very academic way, the little boy took the book out of my hands, kissed the Icon on the cover, then turned all the pages kissing all the icons printed on the pages. His respnse to the book was better than mine.

Holy Theotokos, pray for me that I will repent of my many sins.

Jeff, I came across this text in the 1871 Commentary by Jamison, Fausset, and Brown. They are protestants, by the way.

"Verse 25. And knew her not till she had brought forth her first-born son: and he called his name JESUS--The word "till" does not necessarily imply that they lived on a different footing afterwards (as will be evident from the use of the same word in 1Sa 15:35 2Sa 6:23 Mat 12:20 ); nor does the word "first-born" decide the much-disputed question, whether Mary had any children to Joseph after the birth of Christ; for, as LIGHTFOOT says, "The law, in speaking of the first-born, regarded not whether any were born after or no, but only that none were born before."

These Protestants disagree with you. How do you know your interpretation of this verse is correct?

Yesterday was such a good day. Cyndi had a trade show she had to go to so I worked out of the office at home for a couple of hours, and then spent the day hanging out with the boy. We went to the park and he chased ducks and geese all over the place. He had much fun. After that we went to the market. Then it was nap time. (I did some more work while he was napping) After that we visted granny and papa. Had a nice visit. (Advice: Never let your toddler son up in you your lap if (1) your mother has just given him a piece of chocolate and (2) you are waring light colored pants.)

After that we drove up to Felton for the liturgy of St. Gregory (aka Presanctified Liturgy) at St. Lawrence Church. Wow, What an experience. I think one 1/3 of the congregation was couples in the late teens and early twenties, all with two or three kids. I loved seeing it. I think we have a problem in this society, very visible in SF, and Silicon Valley, that people delay marriage so long. I met a very old heiroschmamonk at church last night. First time I'd ever seen one. Anyway, the service was beautiful. Much uf it spent in prostration (I don't know about other Orthodox, but my forehead gets sore after a few minutes.) The building itself is a converted auction barn, and looks like it could hold 300 comfortably. I think the floors are polished redwwod. Lots of oriental rugs. THe Iconograpy was good, all by the same artist. Unfortunately, the artist pretty much makes the same 3 or four faces. So St. Christopher looks like Jesus. There were lots of people there. The building was very full. Lots of clergy were there, too. Three priests were serving communion. The deacon had a good voice and lead the litanies very powerfully. The priest was kind of nasally. The choir was amazingly good. The best Orthodox choir I have ever heard. I think that if Cyndi and I ever move to Santa Cruz (we are thinking about it) we'd make St. Lawrence Church our home.

And today is off to a great start. Had a breakfast of a crusty baguette from Grace Baking, olives, vegan hummus, and black french roast coffee. And these fabulous little treats. (Yes, they are Lent-friendly)

About Kristie and eBay. I talked to her a couple of months ago and she said she didn't have any friends there. I suppose that might have something to do with her leaving the company. Have you taken a look at their valuation? And their P/E ratio is stupid. I can't figure it out. Its like they are in their own mini-bubble.

Wooo HOOOO!!!!! My client in DC wants to expand his program from 2 schools to 7!!!! Yes. This means I make money! But more importantly, it is a huge indicator that my program works!!!!

Keith asked for wedding advice. Here is what I gave him. What advice would you give for a wedding?

1. I think the best protestant wedding service is from the Church of England's Book of Common Prayer. They have made some changes lately so look for a copy published before the 1920's.
2. Require the minister to give a sermon.
3. Involve everyone in attendence by sining a hymn. Make it solemn. A hymn thanking God for his mercy and providence is best.
4. Elvis and Liberace are both dead. Therefore, no white tuxedos at your wedding.
5. If the wedding is in the morning wear morning clothes.
6. If you are not having groomsmen, then buy a tuxedo. Rented tuxedos never fit right.
7. Don't to 1st corinthans 13 for the reading. Every one does it. Instead do the creation accout of Eve being taken from Adams rib and Pauls command to submit to one another and give your life for your wife.
8. The bride and groom should have communion alone together.
9. Here is a link to some info about the Orthodox wedding rite. Take any ideas you like from it. http://www.hhwedding.com/orthodox_weddings.htm
10. This is the most important advice. Let Cheryl do whatever she wants to do. If she wants white tuxedos, and an Elvis impersonator, and sequiend gowns for the bride's maids let her do it. It is very likely that she has been thinking about this wedding since she was 5 years old and knows exactly what she wants.

It seems that you didn't read anything I posted about Mary's virginity. All you do is repeat what you've already said. I really wish you would pay attention to what I write. But since you don't here are the two things I said before:

1. The Greek and Hebrew Words that are translated in to the English word "until" are used two different ways.

Since it seems you didn't read the whole Gillquist essay, here is his answer to this objectio of yours:

"At this point, however, a very valid question can be raised. If she remained a virgin, why does the Gospel of Matthew tell us that Joseph knew not his wife until after Christ was born (Matthew 1:25)?

From a Scriptural standpoint, the presence of the phrase "until she had brought forth her firstborn Son," does not automatically mean that Joseph must have known her afterward. This is because in both Greek and Hebrew the word 'until' or 'to' can have several different meanings. We find it in II Samuel 6:23: "Michal, daughter of Saul, had not child to (until) the day of her death." It is used again in Matthew 28:20 where the risen Christ says "Lo, I am with you always, even to (until) the end of the world." And in Deuteronomy 34:6 we read "Moses was buried in a valley in the land of Moab, but no one knows his grave to (until) this day."

Obviously the use of the word in these passages does not imply that Michal had a child after her death, that Christ will depart at the end of the world, or that Moses' burial place was discovered the day Deuteronomy 34:6 was written. By the same token, the word 'until' in Matthew 1:25 does not mean that Joseph and Mary began a sexual union after Christ was born. Such a teaching is found nowhere in Scripture and is contrary to the consistent voice of the entire early Church."

As I mentioned earlier, Blesed Theophylact gives more examples than these.

2. The Orthodox church does not necessarily hold that the people described as Jesus' brothers were his cousins. We are adamant that St. James is the son of Joseph by a prior marriage. I'm not aware of any explanations of the St. Jude or the others' relationship to Jesus. To quote Fr. Gilquist again, "Scripture is therefore silent concerning the nature of this relationship between Christ and these brothers and sisters. Early Fathers differed slightly in their understanding of what the terms meant. Some, such as Saint Ambrose, believed that they were children of a former marriage between Joseph and a wife who died prior to Matthew chapter 1. Others taught that they were cousins. But on one point, almost everyone is in agreement: Mary and Joseph had no sexual union whatsoever, before or after the birth of Christ."

So, what is it about this that is hard for you?

You don't have a computer at home? Where were you when you were working on your Psalm 19 Paper & drinking a martini?

About Mary's virginity. I was reading the 9th century comentary on the Gospel of Matthew by the Blessed Theophylact earlier tonight. He gives the same explanation of "until" as Fr. Gilquist does. But he gives more examples from the OT. You know, you never replied to that post of mine either. Looking forward to all of your responses.

Jeff, you have no idea how thrilled I am you finally got a computer at home. There are so many things I am interested in knowing. Did you finish St. John's sermons on 1 Corinthins? What did you think? What did you think of my defense of infant baptism? (You know, of course that nowhere does the Bible say it is wrong to baptize infants.) And of course, there is the post of Jan 27. You've had more than a month to prepare your response. I can hardly wait to read it. So hurry up and post it!

When did Lyndon get out of prison?

One of the ad agencies I am trying to do a deal with has this very odd thing on their website. After wasting almost five minutes on it I thought I'd share it with you.

Also in thinking bout yesterday there were a couple of little things I noticed.
1. The Archpriest from Moscow who was at the Sunday of Orthodox Vespers last night in San Francisco had real diamonds and hand painted icons in his mitre. It was shckingly beautiful.
2. There was a very very old Serbian priest at the same service. When it came time for everyone to prostrate all of the other priests looked at him and seemed to take their cue from him. Would they not have done the prostration if he hadn't? I do not know. But he was first on his face before the Lord. Everyone else followed. It was too crowded for me to do the full prostration. I was only able to get down on my knees.
3. During the Praying of the Our Father during the liturgy at St. Stephens, everyone rasied their hands. I have seen it in Icons and I have seen priests do it at various times during the liturgy, and it is mentioned in the Bible, so I know it is traditional. Also, at St. Stephen's everyone exchanged the kiss of peace ('Christ is in our midst', 'He is and ever shall be'. Kiss.), not just the clergy. It is interesting to see the differences in the various Orthodox Churches. Cyndi and I were talking about it, later. I guess the thing that really matters is not the differences, after all, the Western Rite is Orthodox, and it is dramatically different from what most Orthodox do. What matters is that in that cup is the "One Lord Jesus Christ" and the bishops in all of the Orthodox churches all partake of the same episcopacy. Though there are disimilarities, there is no disapation of love.